computex + XFX

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Well, Computex is on. Computex is a tech show where manufacturers and stuff can show off their latest hardwares. There's always talk of new top end stuff, like the Core i7 975 to replace the 965, 1TB SSDs in 3.5 inch form factor, touch screen stuff and the like.

One thing that caught my eye was XFX, now moving into the PSU market. Now, I'm a secret fan of XFX - I love their styling, and their pricing. Green and black does it for me - 'nuff said.

The PSU on show was an 850W model:

Rated 850W at 50ºC with 88% efficiency. Looks like a myriad of connectors - hopefully enough 6+2 pins for the latest graphics cards.

If XFX can price this below the Corsair 850W model by at least a tenner, I think I now know where my next PSUs are coming from!

cheap as chips

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The 1GB Sapphire HD 4850 X2, PCI-E 2.0 (x16), 1986MHz GDDR3, GPU 625MHz, 1600 Cores, 4x DVI-I/ HDTV:

That's two 4850 GPUs on one card.

Now given I paid £120 for one 4850 a couple months back, how much do you reckon this is? £240? £260?

For today only (1/6/09), it's the low low low low low price of...

£140.

That's an awesome price.

Get it at SCAN.

I wish I had some money. This would be an awesome purchase.

corsair products

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Now to talk about Corsair - a well known manufacturer of PSUs, RAM, TEC Coolers and other stuff.

First of all, my initial impression of Corsair was tainted when I was searching for some decent DDR2 RAM back in January - a fair few of Corsair products had negative reviews purely based on 1066 Mhz RAM not performing as it should. People mentioned that it was just 800Mhz rebranded at slower timings and higher voltage.

Now, with the SCAN event in Bolton last Saturday, the couple of BenchTec guys were saying Corsair this, Corsair that. Also, a guy from Corsair was at the event.

The big rave from BenchTec was two fold - PSUs, and DDR3 RAM. The PSU being heralded was the HX 1000W:


It's a modular piece of kit, that is regarded as one of the best PSUs money can buy. 1000W at 50 degrees C, 80A on a single rail, 6 6+2-pin PCI-E connectors, 5-year warranty, the lot. So it looks nice, and performs well. There is one downside - the price. £190 per unit is a large pill to swallow when you're on a budget. In essence, that could be a whole system right there, if not most of one.

So if I was to get one, I'd go for the next one down - the TX 850W model.


Still 80%+ efficient, 4 6+2-pin PCI-E connectors, 5 year warranty, 850W @ 50 deg.C. However, it isn't modular - BUT only £115. At least in my opinion, that's more like it.

Now onto the subject of RAM. I did a little research for this, and basically I can sum it up in a phrase - Corsair make the ultimate RAM for benchmarking. Their flagship product is the DDR3 Dominator GT:


Rated at 2000Mhz and 7-8-7-18 1T timings, these blow everything else out of the water. Take my current G.Skill - 1333Mhz and 8-8-8-24 timings; that is a HUGE difference. The guy from Corsair said that for every 100 kits they aim to make of this GT stuff, only one kit actually passes (the rest get rated at lower speed). So it's crafted, hand tested, and looks good. Now comes the downside - again, price. A 3GB kit seems to be almost non-existent in the UK, but retails for $300 USD. The 6GB kit is around $540/£300. Again, a tough pill to swallow.

For good performance with a tighter budget, there are the 1866Mhz 9-9-9-24 Corsair Dominator kits for £125.

A friend pointed out that an increase of 1-1-1 in timings requires approx 150Mhz on the clock to get similar performance (I haven't done the math, but it seems fair). So if we raise the bar on each kit to 10-10-10, what would the speed be?

(£300) 6GB Corsair Dom GT: 2000 7-8-7 -> 2400 10-10-10
(£206) 6GB Corsair Dom: 1866 9-9-9 -> 2016 10-10-10
(£42) 6GB G.Skill 1333 8-8-8 -> 1633 10-10-10

That's a serious price to pay for quality RAM...

i7 or not i7

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I'm wondering what to do now. Put simply I have the following upgrade paths:

Common to both options:

GFX: 2xXFX 4830
PSU: 600W
HDD: *WD Raptor
Case: CM Storm Scout/CM Elite 335

Option 1: Core i7

CPU: Core i7 (2.66Ghz) D0 Stepping
Mobo: XFX MB (3 PCI-E x16)
RAM: 3GB DDR3 1600Mhz
CPU Cooler: CoolIt ALC

Option 2: Core2Quad

CPU: Quad core, very rare on HWBot (so I'm not saying yet)
Mobo: Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3L
RAM: *4GB DDR2 1066Mhz
CPU Cooler: Asus Extreme

* indicates already own

Basically, when I upgrade, I have to decide what to do with HAL. If I'm to use it as a crunching machine, I need a couple of 4830s or something in there, hence the XFX graphics cards. Ideally I want to stick it into a CoolerMaster Elite 335 Case, like Dutchie, with a 600W PSU. I decided on 4830s over 4850s because the 4830s are £76 each, the 4850s are £93 - £17 difference per card.

The CoolIt is really a main option for the Core i7 build, and would ultimately require a CM Storm Scout case. Until that point, the Verre V770 that HAL is in at the minute is simple enough if I went ahead with the Core2Quad. At some point I'm going to have to figure out what to do with that V770 case.

Costs are as follows:

Common: £347
Option 1: £495
Option 2: £284

Though given what's said, if I went Option 2, I could wait a while for the CM Scout, removing £105. On both I could wait for the GFX cards, and thus also the power supply for HAL, which is £246. So to initially build and start would require:

Option 1 start: £630 (CPU, Mobo, RAM, Cases, CPU Cooler)
Option 1 final: £212 (GFX, PSU)
Option 1 total: £842

Option 2 start: £314 (CPU, Mobo, CPU Cooler, 335 Case)
Option 2 final: £317 (Scout Case, GFX, PSU)
Option 2 total: £631

Thus Option 2 requires a lower starting amount.

However, we are talking Core2Quad vs. Core i7 here, what about the performance difference? Well, the Core i7 does beat the C2Q out of the water in every benchmark by about 25%, but the option 1 package is 33% more than option 2.

What I have here is do I pick a decent build from current tech, or take the leap into the back end of new tech? This will decide my direction ultimately for the build after, as I'll always be using the best of the current, but never with the benefits of the new (with regard to CPUs anyway).

Then there's another chip I want to test as well for HWBot, but that's a lot cheaper AM2 :) !

more upgrades on the horizon

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I was thinking of getting an E8600 system, with a Foxconn Blackops motherboard, for benchmarking. In retrospect, and contrary to this blog, I rarely upgrade my main system. HAL was built in the winter of 2006.

Thus, I've decided that a Core i7 system is what I should be aiming for. Thus the quest is on to find some decent prices.

Luckily today is a fun day for looking for prices, and this is what I've come up with:

CPU: Corei7 920 E0 (£200, friend runs an eBay shop)
Mobo: XFX X58 (£175 Dabs.com)
RAM: OCZ 3GB (3X1GB) DDR3 1600MHz/PC3-12800 (£45 ebuyer)
CPU Cooler: CoolIT Domino A.L.C (£75 eBuyer)

Total: £495

Also I'd want that CoolerMaster Storm Scout at some point, another £105.

Total: £600

I may need another PSU. Though I could use HALs.

That, and I'm looking at some SLC Solid-State hard drives. There's a nice 64GB one from Crucial at Overclockers for £143.

Yeah, I need some money.

future purchases update

Given my recent splurge, my list from last week goes out the window. Specifically the RAM and the CPU/mobo sections. And my decision to get a different case, well that too.

I've also started to think about my next crunching system. Ideally, it'll be roughly the same for cheaper, or slightly better for the same money (as stuff gets cheaper), but still do the same job. That, and if I can find hardware to benchmark at hwbot.org, even better. Hence, when looking today, I found the stuff I want:

2nd Crunching PC
CPU: AMD 64 X2-4850e (2.5Ghz) (£48)
Mobo: AsRock ALiveXFire-eSata2 (£50)
RAM: 2GB DDR2-800 (£20)
GFX: Depends on the current market prices in £ per credit/day at BOINC.
PSU: 800W (for two dual GPU cards) or 600W (got two single GPUs) (£45)
Case: CM Elite 355 (£35)
HDD: 80GB is more than enough (£0, I have some)
CPU Cooler: Zalman Flower (£20)

That makes £218, without any GFX cards (another £220 for 2x4850).

Actually, this puts my future upgrades in a good order:

1) CoolerMaster Storm 'Scout' (£103)
Initially, this will be HALBERDs home, before I upgrade HAL. HK will move to the ThermalTake Armour.
2) 1.5TB HDD for Storage (£117)
Put it in HK, because I'm running out.
3/4) Look into HAL upgrades. I'm eyeing some E8600 chip with the Foxconn BlackOps motherboard, but that's £400 even without RAM or a PowerSupply. Then another £75 for the CoolIt ALC water thing, which I may buy as no.3 or even no.2.
5) The next crunching machine (min £450)

Fun fun fun times. Now where's my moolah.

case change

For a while, I've wanted the Antec 1200 case - it's big, brash, lots of space, looks neat, and is considered one of the best cases of all time for air cooling. It looks like this:



I love the blue (and UV-purple style here) and the styling. Again, the case is massive. You can see the comparison with the Thermaltake Armour (my current HALBERD case, soon to be my HarukaKanata case) here.

However, in retrospect, I'm not getting a gaming case for the size. Mainly the cooling. I saw this case being advertised at overclockers this week:

The CoolerMaster Storm 'Scout'



This case is designed for portability and ruggedness, with plenty of fans. It's marketed as a mid-tower case (the Antec 1200 is a 'full'-tower case), and has that handle on the top so you can chug it around to LANs easier.

That being said, I haven't been to a LAN yet in Oxford. But this case is £40 cheaper than the Antec. Pair that with the CoolIt ALC I posted on previously, it's either £175 for the Antec and a cooler, or £175 for the CM Scout and the CoolIt. And because it'd have the CoolIt, the air cooling isn't that important (though the Scout still has good cooling).

So I've changed my mind. I want this Scout case :)

coolit domino alc

I was surfing Hexus.net, and they have a new competition up - for a CoolIt Domino A.L.C. This is an all in one water cooling unit for your PC:



Simply bolt on, place the radiator in the 120mm fan slot near your CPU, and it's done. Water cooling solution that you don't have to mess with. It's available in AM2/775/1366 forms.

I read a review at LegitReviews to see if this was 'all that', and they believe so. At an expected lifetime of 7 years (thanks to a ceramic pump) and a warranty of two, this beast need not be refilled in its life.

As with all electronics, the UK pays a premium on this sort of thing. The target was the $100 market. In the UK, this means £75 from eBuyre (remember when it was a 2:1 exchange rate so it should have been £50?). Now if you think about it, most high end builds use a form of Zalman cooler or its nearest rivals. These come in at £40-£50, so this is a 50% jump for what is water cooling, and potentially another 200-300Mhz on your overclock.

I think it sounds neat, though I guess I'll wait until I upgrade HALBERD before getting one.

order of new purchases

After outlining my ideal gaming/storage/crunching systems, I figured out my next course of action of what to buy in order. It goes a little something like this:

1) £130 Antec 1200 case. I've been after one a while, and apart from get another graphics card, there's not a lot else I can do otherwise. With this, I can put HALBERD (my E6400) in it, then put HarukaKanata(HK) into the Thermaltake Armour that HALBERD was in. Then I can rearrage HK into a purely storage system with a 4670 and all the Hard Drives - The 4850s can be split between HAL and JC until MilkyWay gets solid work, then I can put both into HAL. It has 4 SATA ports and IDE ports for 4 drives. Stick the 550W Hiper PSU currently in JC in there and away we go! This also leaves the case HK was in for a potential crunching system.

2) £45 4GB DDR2 RAM. The PC8500 stuff is quite cheap now, and I'll stick this in HALBERD. This leaves me with 2GB DDR2, which I may be able to put towards a new machine I may be building for my father, or a crunching machine.

3) £120 X2-5050e/ASRock motherboard/Zalman cooler. This will be my first crunching system. I already have the case (old HK case) and RAM. I have plenty of HDDs lying around, and a 700W PSU to put in it. Both 4850s will end up in this one for crunching.

4) £120/£260 New GFX Card - 4850 or 4850X2 If it's an X2, I can stick it into crunch and use a 4850 in HAL for gaming. This is all a question of what money I've got, how much they cost, and when I want to splurge.

5) £120 Another HDD for HK Given that I've already filled 1.5TB, another wont go amiss.

6) At this point, it might be 8-12 months from where I am now, so the CPU climate would have changed completely. At this point, it'd probably be best to re-evaluate possible upgrades to HAL.

pcs of interest

Over the past weeks, I've been trying to figure out what my ideal PCs are. Broadly speaking, they fall into the following categories:

Gaming
Network Storage
Crunching

So it's always a question of what hardware to get for each, and you know, how much of my stipend I have left.

Here's what I'm looking at (with two choices - the normal then expensive):

Gaming - Purpose of the gaming rig is to get the most from games, not a lot else.
CPU: E8400 (a 3Ghz C2D) or i7 920 (2.6Ghz Nehalem)
GFX: 2x 4850 or 2x GTX285
Motherboard: Foxconn Black Ops (3xPCI-E) or Gigabyte EX58
PSU: 850W or 1000W
RAM: 3GB DDR3
HDD: WD Raptor or SSD
Case: Antec 1200
CPU Cooler: Asus Silent Knight II or Zalman Flower thing

I saw a review of 3 vs 6GB, no difference really except in multitasking, hence the 3GB.

What about the price of this thing?
Well, the lower price option is 140+240+160+60+55+150+150+50 = £1005
The higher price option is 250+620+160+120+55+250+150+50 = £1655

Technically I have the Raptor, 4850s, and an 850W PSU already, taking £450 off the lower price option. Though I do have a dual PCI-E board already, if I went for the Foxconn BlackOps, I could get another 4850. So I either take 160 off and keep my board (also take off 55 for the RAM, add 32 for another 2GB of my current stuff), or add 120 on for another GFX card. That makes £183 off or £120 on, making £372 or £675, depending on how you look at it.

Network Storage - purpose is to have lots of storage, maybe a good multi-threaded processor for decoding/encoding video. A good graphics card would work too. Technically I have most of this build already.

CPU: Dual/Quad/Octo core
GFX: Something with HDMI - HD 4670?
Motherboard: Single PCI-E is fine
PSU: 550W
RAM: 4GB DDR2
HDD: 6TB+. Preferably RAIDed
Case: Something that could hold lots of HDDs. A Themaltake Armour for instance.
CPU Cooler: Zalman Flower.

Well, HarukaKanata is an X2-4400 with Zalman cooler and Asus A8N-E. I have a 550W PSU, a ThermalTake Armour and a HD 4670. Technically I'd just need to move it into the case HALBERD is in, get some more RAM and some HDDs.

Thus £25 for the RAM (or just add in the RAM from HALBERD if that gets upgraded), and £120 per 1.5TB HDD. I already have one, and can add more at will. So this option is cheap :)

Crunching - The purpose of this is just to BOINC away. I've been looking at some Quad-PCI-E boards, but given how much power GFX cards use, and the price of power supplies, it's probably best to stick to Dual-PCI-E boards. Again, let's consider a low and high spec machine.

CPU: Dual Core (AMD or Intel), or Quad Core+, preferably Intel, all preferably low power.
GFX: 2x4850/2x4870, or 2x4870X2/2xGTX295
Motherboard: Dual PCI-E board
PSU: 650W or 850W (w/Dual Core) or 950W with Quad
RAM: 2GB DDR2
HDD: 80GB
Case: Good ventilation. Antec 300?
CPU Cooler: Zalman Flower

So the main difference in the two builds would be the processor and graphics cards, along with the Power Supply (which are more expensive than you think).

So Processor Mobo combinations:
X2-5050e (2.6Ghz) 45W AM2 £53 + Asrock ALiveXFire £43 = £96
Intel Q6600 (2.4Ghz) 95W s775 £152 + A few mobos ~£100 = £252

GFX cards and PSUs also go hand in hand - a 4850 uses around 175-200W each, the X2 or GTX295 can use 300W each. So 4850s need 650W to be safe, the others should like 850W.

So lower cost option = 53+240/300(2x4850/2x4870)+43+55+25+25+50+50 = £541/£601
Higher cost option = 152+660/830(2x4870X2/2xGTX295)+100+80+25+25+50+50 = £1142/£1312

The lower cost build minus the GFX cards is 53+43+55+25+25+50+50 = £301, which is quite reasonable imo.